Wow, readers. In response to our recent column on gender pay disparity, some didn’t like the headline (one thinks it “smells of link bait”), a number want more meaningful comparisons of similarly situated, same-job workers, and some shared stories, such as “Hell on heels.”
And some men think the pay gap discriminates against men, not women.
Here are the comments (boldface is ours):
What about the pay gap between men and women holding the same position, such as happened to Lily Ledbetter? It’s not just a matter of women not seeking out the highest paying jobs–those who do often still make less than their male counterparts.
I agree. This article, based on the title, should be about the pay gap between men and women holding the same position. Why women may choose different types of jobs than men doesn’t explain the pay gap, as this article seems to be trying to suggest.
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I agree. This article does not address the real problem of the pay gap between men and women holding the same position.
I agree. This article seems so obtuse… missing the larger, more salient and troubling point about women being paid less than men in the same positions.
‘The Gender Gap Essentially Disappears’
You can find individual examples like this all the time, but the narrative that women take home less pay on average because of discrimination is baloney. Every legitimate study shows the following: “Once you adjust for occupational choice, education, experience, work flexibility, and other legitimate factors that affect pay, the gender gap essentially disappears.”
The Equal Pay Act of 1963, Title VII of Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the 1991 amendments to Civil Rights Act cover “real” gender discrimination. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act is feel good, but bad legislation. And in regards to the sainted Lilly Ledbetter, she knew of the pay discrepancy for years, but did nothing about it.
‘It’s the Men Who Are Discriminated Against’
My company went through a merger several years ago. The new owners consistently hire women for their Accounting Dept and pay them less than market rate. The only men they hire are all under 30 and just starting in the Finance field. They do the same with their IT Staff.
I disagree totally [with the article], and if there is any disparity or discrimination, it’s happening to men. In my 20 years within manufacturing and federal government work experience, I have seen discrimination perpetrated by upper management women towards men and women who are in hourly production jobs and careered positions, such as HR and environmental health and safety.
I have personally experienced this as an EHS manager. When the job requires physical work, the women in the same position just flat out won’t do the same task even though the position requires it; they stand back and let the men do things at their discretion, and when convenient, claim discrimination when competing for promotions. I have seen women chosen for HR positions then turn around and suppress the advancement of other women and also verbally abuse them and create an environment of intimidation towards women.
I have concluded that it is power hungry women who, once they achieve upper management positions, are suppressing other women. God help the male who crosses their path or especially any women who expresses that their first priority and goal in life is to be a devoted mother and wife before their “Career,” they will go nowhere.
I have personally witnessed an HR hell on heals, verbally berate an innocent secretary, in front of the entire office of co-workers and reduce her to tears. This HR proclaimed to all that there is no other B____ greater than her. I know not all, by no means, are like this person at all. But to assert women are still under paid for the same careered positions is absurd. In the HR field and my field of environmental health and safety, women are taking over and selected over men and paid more.
Just one guy’s experience in life; I’ve been to hell and back just surviving in industry.
‘Smells Like Link Bait’
C’mon Steve. You so miss the mark between your title and your article that it smells a bit like link bait to me.
You didn’t answer your own POV except for your banking example. All the rest relates to the types of men/women tend to gravitate towards. Do an apples-to-apples comparison by industry and you’ll provide a greater service—and, answer your own headline.
As for me, I once experienced a 40% pay increase and it wasn’t even time for my review—because someone was checking out my company and complained to someone. Most recently, I worked for a privately held company, who in this day and age, the entrepreneur/owner feels women “don’t need” as much money as men?
Good luck to you.
Clothing Makes the Woman
I work in banking, and I have a couple of other observations. Men wear business suits to work. But women in equal positions will wear a dress with no hose and flip-flops. Or they’ll wear stretch pants and a t-shirt with a sweater. While their male counterparts are in white shirts and ties. I was always taught that you should dress for the role that you want in business. I think women could take a lesson from that.
The only women that are paid less than men are the ones that accept less. No one holds a gun to your head and makes you accept less. Men are more likely to stick to their guns and negotiate harder for more money.
The Chartered Financial Analyst designations is one of the hardest to get. Just earning an MBA will not get you through these three six-hour grueling exams. Year after year salary surveys of people with this credential showed that women at all ranges of experience were being paid less than men with in the same job categories. (And since they still let so few of us through the door, except as support staff and tellers, too many of us are too grateful and scared of being blackballed to stand up and ask for more.)
And our “sisters” in the HR pink collar ghetto are complacent (and complicit) in letting the status quo of underpaying women roll on by.
As long as there are no internal audits for disparity, managers get double brownie points for “diversity” and keeping their budgets low. What’s not to love. If a man or woman comes in and wants to end pay disparity, the company lawyers will kill ending bad practices to avoid getting sued for past discrimination.
No, I don’t know to fix it all. One way is for HR people to do honest desk audits that do not devalue work done by women as “support” or “para-professional.”