By BLR Founder and CEO Bob Brady
Do women get paid less just because they don’t know how to ask for more? BLR’s CEO offers his thoughts … and asks for yours.
Where are we on women’s pay? Recent reports point in both directions.
On one hand, women college graduates get paid less than their male classmates, almost from graduation day, according to the American Association of University Women, and right on through their careers. This calls into question the “justifications” for male/female wage disparities, which center on child care choices and lifestyle considerations. Within a year of graduation, these do not have time to have an impact. The AAUW’s conclusion: discrimination Discrimination is the cause.
The survey has provoked considerable debate, some of it in the forums on HR.BLR.com, http://community.blr.com/hr/forums/thread/647.aspx. One HR manager asked quite simply, “If we’re the people setting starting salaries, and we’re letting this happen, then aren’t we responsible?”
On the other hand, Reuters recently published an article highlighting a Bureau of Labor Statistics study that showed that nearly a third of women outearn their spouses. The article offered “advice” to couples who fall into this category. (“Don’t brag or berate.” “Talk about money over coffee, not wine.” “Enjoy your good fortune,” etc.)
Seeming Contradiction
The two articles seem to contradict each other, one saying that a third of women outearn their spouses; the other, that they earn less right from the beginning of their careers. So which is right?
In fact, both are right. There is nothing contradictory in the two sets of data. If only one- third of women earn more than their husbands, then most (66%) women earn the same or less than their spouses.
The “one-third earn more” statistic sounds good because it is positively stated and because of cultural stereotypes, which would have us believe that women almost always earn less. The positive number sounds like progress (which it no doubt is—even if not enough or not fast enough in the eyes of many). But the 66% figure yanks us back to the reality of the situation, as does the AAUW study.
On the other hand, if we think back to the 1970s or ’80s, it was very, very unusual for women to outearn their spouses. Clearly, some progress has been made, but we can’t be satisfied until disparities can be explained by factors other than discrimination.
Discrimination
Is the discrepancy due to discrimination? Those posting on the HR.BLR.com forums think so. Despite law, good intentions, and enormous progress over the last 40 years, discrimination, conscious or unconscious, continues to be a reality, they maintain — even among those of us who pride ourselves on our enlightened attitudes.
But there are other factors that have to be taken into consideration.
Negotiation
One was raised by Tory Johnson, a commentator on the ABC News website. She said that one reason women earn less is that they are not as likely to negotiate for a higher starting salary. Because raises are calculated from base pay, a lower starting pay, even by a small amount, can have a serious, long-term impact.
Isn’t there something wrong with this? Unlike many of our forum members, Johnson doesn’t think so. “No employer has an obligation to whisper in the woman’s ear, ‘Hey, you know, you just lost out on more money because you didn’t speak up,’” she writes. “If she accepts the salary offered, so be it. But the consequences of failing to negotiate a first salary can lead women to lose more than $500,000 by age 60.”
In her column, she gives advice to women (and it applies equally well to men) about how to deal with pay negotiations. Her column can be found at http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/TakeControlOfYourLife/story?id=3074877&page=1.
In her view, it’s up to each woman — no matter what her career stage, industry, or position — to speak up and negotiate for herself. She argues that women have a responsibility to arm themselves with better negotiating skills.
Conflicted
As you might expect, I’m conflicted on this. There is no doubt that people with good negotiating skills do better—at least in the short term. But as an employer, I feel that our pay policies are grounded in pay grades, salary ranges, and performance reviews, which mutes these kinds of inequities over time. So it all works out in the end.
Am I kidding myself? As always, I’m interested in what you think. Please check out our forums at HR.BLR.com (click here to go there ), and let me know what you think, either there, by using the Share Your Comments button here, or by e-mailing me at RBrady@blr.com.
The 33% of women who earn more than their husbands could be a flawed measure since it is not controlled for education level or type of work. I believe it is rather common for women of higher education with business jobs to be married to men who work in less professional positions. (Of course, I have no statistical verification of that comment. It is just based on life observations.) That factor could be contributing a significant share of the 33%, and in that case, the 33% does not prove progress in reducing the gender gap.
I think it is both. I know that I have a very strong aversion to negotiating and that has certainly had an impact. I have seen very aggressive salary negotiation with some of the male managers and they do receive a larger increase as a consequence. However, I also know that discrimination still exists–most certainly where I work now. Since I have been involved in the negotiations, I know that they are of the opinion that the two female senior managers “have never made more money than they do now” and blow off any additional increases. In my case, that is factually incorrect. However, the real point is they have never said that when discussing pay for the two male senior managers. I believe I could make more if I really went after it, so that is on me. On the other side, the owners would still come in significantly lower than for a male manager, and that’s discriminatory. Obviously, I work here for reasons other than money.
Until this summer, I really thought everyone had an opportunity to start their careers on the same footing – all things being equal. My two teenagers applied at the same time and at the same fast food restaurant. Both had zero work experience, my daughter just graduated high school my son will be a junior. Who was receives the higher pay? My son, by .25 an hour. Why? Because of the job he was “selected” to do as a fry cook. My daughter was “selected” for the cashier job. Neither was told what jobs were available or what the jobs paid. In fact, no females are hired as fry cooks and no males as cashiers. Yes, the pay disparity between men and women does start early.
Isn’t the argument that all women have trouble negotiating discriminatory itself? If one of the tasks in the job description involved negotiations, would it be ok to favor male candidates?
There is a similar remark, but I will still comment… Even if it is true that 1/3 of women out-earn their spouses, that doesn’t mean the women are being paid in their positions what their male counterparts are being paid for the same work.
To clarify my last missive with an example: If the wife is an attorney, she might be making 20% less than a male attorney with the same education and qualifications in that firm. If the husband is a mechanic, he is likely making less than the wife, but still perhaps making e.g., 30% more than a female mechanic with the same education and qualifications.
As a Human Resource professional I have hired many people over the years from college graduates to executive level candidates. I would have to agree that from my experience many women do not have the salary expectations or negotiate as men for similar positions. We used salary grades and offered pay in line with experience, but overall the men expected and thus recieved more. As the article stated, this may have been the net effect of years of lower pay and less in raises. On a positive note which may show the times are changing, in the past few years, woman college graduates have been equal or above their male counterparts on negotiating starting salary.
On a personal note, I am a male and recently interviewed for a new positon. I lost out to a female candidate because she was expecting $10,000 less then I was. She had 5 years more expereince then I did, but she has never earned that salary before. It is hard to say who is continuing the cycle of lower pay for women – companies, the individuals, or a combination of both.